Together in Our Struggles: An Interview with Chip Sweney

In his recent article for Christianity Today, Chip Sweney shares, “There is a crisis among pastors and ministry leaders—and far too many of us are walking through it alone… But it doesn’t have to be this way.”

Geneva’s Director of Ministerial of Wellbeing, Rev. Paul Joiner, sat down with Sweney to talk about his story of mental health struggles and the supporting networks that have been part of the Lord’s provision for him. Watch the full interview below.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Chip, tell us a little bit about your ministry background, where you’re serving, how long you’ve been there, and the nature of your work there. 

So, 33 years in vocational ministry, the first 10 was primarily student ministry, and then the last 23 have been focused externally, helping our people get involved outside the four walls of the church, mobilized and making an impact locally and around our city and even globally some. Most of all of that has been at Perimeter [Church]. I’ve been one of the pastors at Perimeter for 29 years this summer. I can’t believe it. I’ve been on the executive leadership team for 15 years and I used to be the young guy on the team and now I’m the old guy on the team with our new Pastor Jeff Norris and his team. It’s been such a gift and privilege to be there. 

That’s a lot of responsibility at a fairly prominent church in our denomination. In your article, you share about your struggles and how Perimeter was instrumental in being a network of support and care for you. That creates its own dynamic, right? Every pastor feels the tendency to hide. But especially, I would imagine that when you’re in a leadership position at a flagship church, that pressure is a little bit more. 

Sure it is. My story is that probably going all the way back to high school, I think I struggled with some level of depression. It wasn’t until after seminary, in my early 30s, where I had been on staff at Perimeter for a couple years that I first went to a counselor and began taking some medication. And for many years after that, I would say that that really helped the combination of those two and spiritually, of course, really helped me stabilize. I didn’t have as many dips, the depression dips, so to speak. But nothing could have prepared me for what happened the latter part of 2019 and really a collapse that happened in January of 2020. It was very scary. I got to the place where I just couldn’t function. I couldn’t make decisions. I would look at the computer screen and emails and just not know what to do. I would sometimes start sentences and not complete them. It was truly a breakdown. And at that time, I went to our executive leadership team and just said, “I need a break. I need help. I cannot function at the level of this job.” And I will say, I’m so thankful for Perimeter Church and the leadership. I have received so much support over the years. And even in times where I had to take a break from working, they covered my departments, they continued to encourage me and they never gave up on me. They believed that I’d be able to come back and do my job even when I didn’t think so. 

There’s so much gravitational pull towards isolation. The evil one loves to keep us isolated, especially in pastoral ministry. Especially in leadership positions within the church, we want people to think we’re put together. And yet you were able to go to the leadership of your own church and say, “I’m not in a good place. I need help.”  What was it that gave you that kind of freedom? 

Yeah it is hard and it’s scary. There still is a lot of stigma around emotional mental health and I think particularly for Christians and particularly for pastors and ministry leaders.

Again, I’ve developed really close authentic friendships with a number of men and I had even been sharing about struggles with both the leadership team and these men, but in this case I didn’t even realize how bad it was. I didn’t realize how far down I’d spiraled and I will never forget a lunch that I had on a Friday afternoon near the end of January 2020. I sat across the table from one of my closest friends, Matt, and he said, “Chip, you are doing really poorly and I’m very concerned and you need to get help,” and he picked up his phone right then and called a counselor that we both knew and he said we need to get together this afternoon so the three of us met that afternoon. That was a Friday afternoon and on Monday morning I went into the ELT and shared. So, I had been pretty open about what I thought the level of my struggles were but it took the close, deep friendship and trust that we had for him to call it out and I think that’s a big part of the story here. Not only do we need to be able to share about our own struggles, but also there may be some people we’re very close with and they can’t see it. We need the courage to be able to call that out. 

How’d you find the gospel giving you some of that freedom and encouragement too, right? And maybe even amongst yourselves with friends. 

Truth be told, I’ve had two breakdowns. And each time by far, what made the biggest difference and what began the healing process and continues to this day was what I would call a fresh awakening of the gospel and of Jesus’s love for me, of that heart-understanding again that I’m okay and Christ’s love for me has not wavered.

A couple of passages have been really special for me. One is Matthew 11: 28-30 where Jesus says, “Come to me, come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” This is the one place in the Gospels where he describes his heart, and he says, gentle and lowly. That’s our Lord and Savior. He’s got open arms welcoming us at any point, and he has a smile when he sees us. He doesn’t have a scowl. Then, 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 where Paul has the thorn in the flesh. We don’t know what the thorn is, but Paul begged the Lord to take it away three times, meaning he begged until he was exhausted. So it must have been something that really brought shame and embarrassment, or somehow Paul thought it was a major detriment to his ministry. And I love what Jesus says, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” I think that’s what’s so hard for us to understand as pastors and leaders and believers. That his strength most shows up in our weakness. We strive so hard to present and show all of our strengths, but [we have] that gift of the Lord. “ I’m working, I’m working, even in the depths of your pit, I’m working.”

When you shared your struggles with your church, they were also a big part of support, encouragement, redemption. What did they do that could be a model for other churches? 

This is very practical, and I really give this encouragement to churches, is a paid leave of absence. They allowed me to take the time to work with professionals to be able to begin to heal without the pressure of everything that’s coming at you every day in the roles that we have, and actually get paid for it. That’s huge.

That was a major gift. And again, I would say the leadership team’s encouragement. Continually reaching out, sending texts, and they had to pick up my load of departments. Someone had to say, “I will cover”, and there’s a cost to that. It put more pressure on them, and they did it without question. And then, of course, sabbaticals. I think a policy for a regular rhythm of a sabbatical for pastors, and churches that have larger staff, for other pastoral positions. Rest and healing renewal is a continual. The Sabbath each and every week may be the rhythm that the church needs. All those things were huge. 

How long of leave did they give you?

For me, it ended up being about two and a half months each time.  I never felt pressure. If I had needed more time, I really believe they would have given it to me. There wasn’t a sense of, “Okay, you’ve got this long, and then we’ve got to make a decision”. 

I love hearing you say that because it’s like the culture of the church modeled the gospel in providing safety and generosity at the same time instead of performance. 

It was huge because when you’re spiraling and really struggling, there’s a lot of fear. There’s a fear you’re gonna lose your job, there’s a fear that you’re not sure what you’re gonna be able to do if you don’t get better. For me, I’m an extrovert. I didn’t want to be around people. It just does things to you that bring significant insecurities, so any blessings of grace like that are just huge.

What else do you think that as a denomination we can do for the mental health and emotional health of our pastors? 

I really appreciate Geneva and what you guys are doing. I’m excited about the pastoral groups that you have going on. Once again, I think that is one of the key ways we can come around each other. Also, the sabbatical support you give to pastors and churches. I know there’s a great support system for pastoral lives. Just all the resources that you guys have, the pastoral study you did a few years ago. I’m really thankful for what our denomination is doing.

Outside of that, I think I would just say for pastors and for churches to understand we’re holistic beings. Everything is connected together spiritually, physically, emotionally, mentally, relationally. In my experience, I feel that my significant depression and anxiety is a physical issue and a spiritual issue. I’m not saying that everybody who struggles with depression, anxiety, or other mental health issues needs medicine, but some of us do. I’ve seen the difference that medication makes. And that’s why now I’ve got a psychiatrist and a counselor that are part of my team. But of course, there are spiritual issues. I have deep levels of pride and ego and idols of performance and approval and all of that plays into what I’ve experienced. So, I think an understanding among both the pastors and churches that it’s complex and you can’t just say it’s either or. I think that’s big. In my article, I quoted a Barna study that came out in 2023, that almost 20% of Protestant pastors had said in the last year they had considered either harming themselves or suicide. That should take our breath away. There are significant issues going on. 

So yeah, whatever we can do [as a denomination] to bring encouragement to those men and women leaders so that it’s good to say, “I need help.” Because there is help. And you’re not alone. It’s not just a matter of saying, “Oh, if your faith was stronger,” it’s a lot more than that. 

At Geneva, we are dedicated to helping ministry leaders thrive. We know the physical, mental, and spiritual challenges that pastors face, and we are committed to providing resources, groups, and care to ministers in need. Pastor, you don’t have to suffer alone. Click here to learn more about our full suite of wellbeing resources and click here to read Chip Sweney’s full article.